The ‘Quotes’ Myth

The Myth 1

Winston Churchill said, “When fascism returns it will be in the guise of opposition to fascism” or “When fascism returns it will be in the guise of anti-fascism“.

The Truth 1

Nowhere can I find the original source of Churchill saying that fascism will return as anti-fascism. The quote itself seems to have surfaced in late 2007 and is used almost exclusively by Far Right supporters. The most likely explanation is that the Far Right invented the quote. Here’s the earliest example I have found so far: http://entitledtoanopinion.wordpress.co … or-fascism

November 27, 2007
Anti-fascists for fascism
Posted by teageegeepea under I Don’t Need Society!, Moral posturing

I think it was Winston Churchill who said “When fascism returns it will be in the guise of opposition to fascism”.

Post Date :
November 27, 2007 at 5:48 pm

As you can tell there are anti-Semitic comments on there. The quote seems to have been adapted from one attributed to the Governor of Louisiana, Huey Long (1893 -1935), who is supposed to have said, “Sure we’ll have Fascism here, but it will come as an anti-Fascism movement“ (Seldes G., Facts and Fascism, Chapter 2, 1943 – 7th edition).

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/George_Seldes/Facts_and_Fascism.html

However that in turn may be misattributed, as Georgi Dimitrov presented to the Seventh World Congress of the Communist International on August 2nd 1935, a document entitled, ‘The Fascist Offensive and the Tasks of the Communist International in the Struggle of the Working Class against Fascism‘. In this he says “It is a peculiarity of the development of American fascism that at the present stage it comes forward principally in the guise of an opposition to fascism, which it accuses of being an “un-American” trend imported from abroad“.

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/dimitrov/works/1935/08_02.htm

As can be seen the underlined wording is nearly identical to the supposed Churchill quote.
Huey Long is also credited as saying, “If Fascism ever comes to America, it will come wrapped in an American flag“.
In the absence of any primary sources of Churchill ever having said that, it seems the following scenario is likely. Georgi Dimitrov originated the phrase “in the guise of opposition to fascism“, which was then confused with the “wrapped in an American flag“ quote by Huey Long, which is quite possibly genuine, and attributed to Long. Something like, “If fascism ever comes to America, it will come in the guise of opposition to fascism“.

At some point, probably quite recently, this amalgamated quote skipped back over the Atlantic, was further modified and attributed to Churchill by the British Far Right. Probably because nobody in Britain has heard of Long, so they needed a recognisable name to go with the quote.

Furthermore, recently scholars have attributed the quote to Italian author Ignazio Silone. That’s Italy, who were allies of Hitler’s Nazis in WWII.

Despite the fact that the Far Right is inextricably connected with fascism, Nazism and White Nationalism, they try and turn the tables on their anti-fascist opponents by accusing them of being the real fascists. So presumably they chose the greatest opponent of fascism – Churchill – with his enormous patriotic symbolism and made up a quote that sounds like the sort of thing he may have said. They then have the spiritual backing of Churchill against their anti-fascist opponents, because ‘Churchill‘ said such people are the ‘real fascists‘.

Considering Churchill was one of the world’s greatest anti-fascists, it makes absolutely no sense that he would warn the world about the future perils of opposing fascism!

Here we have some real quotes by Churchill; see if you can find one relating to anti-fascism:
http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/bulldog.html

The Myth 2

Jack Straw said, “The English as a race are not worth saving” or “The English are not worth saving as a race“.

The Truth 2

This quote also finds favour with the British Far Right. Again, I cannot find any primary source for him having said this. Some sources allege he wrote this in the Falkland Islands Constitution. The current one dates from 12th November 2008 and that replaced the previous one of 1985 when Mr. Straw wasn’t in government. The actual content of the Falkland Islands Constitution is here: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/uksi_20082846_en_1. The phrase does not appear there at all. Such a phrase is an opinion and therefore not going to be found in a legal document. It is actually signed by Judith Simpson, Clerk of the Privy Council not Jack Straw, Secretary of State for Justice.

A claim that he said, “The English are not worth saving as a race”, is made on the Centurean website, http://centurean2.wordpress.com/2008/11/15/the-english-are-not-worth-saving-as-a-race-jack-straw-commie-fabian/, dates from 15th November 2008.

“If this is how Government represent the people, if Jack Straw believes that this is what is genuinely required in the Falklands, and it is a blueprint of what he intends to put in place in a post democratic UK, then I can only say that the dawn of the tyrannical Dictatorship is well and truly upon us.

“The English are not worth saving as a race” – Jack Straw.”

He also calls Straw:

“The Communist Fascist Fabian just can’t help himself can he- read with care the above because as sure as today is saturday- this is also your fate.”

I wonder if the site owner actually knows what those words mean?

Another claim from 27th September 2008 is that he said it as part of a ‘speech at a well known Marxist school‘, but no further evidence is given. http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/english-democrats/53102-cep-brown-straw-express-concern-over-campaign-english-parliament.html Of course that pre-dates the Falkland Islands Constitution by about 6 weeks, which means claims that he originally said it in the Constitution are obviously untrue.

The phrase “the British are not worth saving as a race” was attributed to Straw on 31st October 2006 by someone who also claimed that, “What better way for an EU Soviet Police State to control its Population than getting rid of Christianity and replacing it with Sharia Law” http://atangledweb.typepad.com/weblog/2006/10/noses_in_the_tr.html The author provides a link that states “How-the-Government-has-declared-war-on-white-English-people”. Hardly a source free of bias, but again it shows that quotes of that type attributed to Straw pre-date the Falkland Islands Constitution by at least 2 years.

The nearest quote by him that I can actually find reliable evidence for is the following:

“The English are potentially very aggressive, very violent. We have used this propensity to violence to subjugate Ireland, Wales and Scotland. Then we used it in Europe and with our empire, so I think what you have within the UK is three small nations…who’ve been over the centuries under the cosh of the English. Those small nations have inevitably sought expression by a very explicit idea of nationhood. You have this very dominant other nation, England, 10 times bigger than the others, which is self-confident and therefore has not needed to be so explicit about its expression. I think as we move into this new century, people’s sense of Englishness will become more articulated and that’s partly because of the mirror that devolution provides us with and because we are becoming more European at the same.”

Jack Straw, on BBC Radio Four’s “Brits“, 10th January 2000

The speech was as part of a radio broadcast in which Jack Straw and the then Conservative leader William Hague, warned of the dangers of English nationalism following devolution in the UK. Uncomfortable as it may be for many English people to read, it is true that England subdued Ireland, Wales and Scotland through violence. It is also true that England has never really had to think too hard about what it is to be English up until now. English identity for the last few centuries has been almost completely identified with being British, with the two being virtually indistinguishable from an English perspective. Hence ‘England’ incorrectly being used as an alternative term for Britain or the United Kingdom. The smaller nations have had to develop their own national identities to avoid becoming completely Anglicised. England has never had to and therefore is having to now, with the other nations being able to exert themselves politically. Unfortunately as Mr. Straw and Mr. Hague point out, this nationalism is articulated through violence and aggression towards other countries. This appears to be combination of resentment towards the other UK nations (that they are ’splitters’) and Euroscepticism. Interestingly enough that is the sort of nationalism, that of football hooligans, that the Far Right identifies with and that’s possibly the reason they took offence to Mr. Straw’s words.

As I’ve noted elsewhere in the BNP Myths section, the BNP will say that quotes by their party members have a mysterious ‘cut off’ point beyond which they don’t count any more. So how is it that what Nick Griffin said in 2000 about taking over the British broadcasting media is irrelevant, but Jack Straw speaking in 2000 of the English being violent still matters?

The Myth 3

David Cameron said, “Sour Little Englanders“.

The Truth 3

In a speech entitled ‘I will never take Scotland for granted‘ on September 15th 2006, David Cameron said the following words:

“We should not forget that Alex Salmond couldn’t ask for more effective allies in his campaign to break up the Union than sour Little Englanders who cry ‘good riddance’ when independence for Scotland is suggested. I’ll fight them all the way. No-one is prouder of being English than I am. But I’m also passionately attached to the idea of Britain.”

So he was stating that he doesn’t like the English who wish to end the United Kingdom. Of course such words again will not go down well with English nationalists any more than those of Jack Straw. However when the phrase is repeated no reference to Cameron’s declaration of British patriotism is ever mentioned.

Neither do they mention the bit where he said: “I’m a Unionist and every corner of this United Kingdom is precious to me, including Scotland“.

Or: “In some ways the links between Scotland and England have never been stronger. More Scots live in England, and more English people live in Scotland, than ever before“.

Odd that, those little oversights. The full transcript of the speech is here: http://www.conservatives.com/News/Speeches/2006/09/Cameron_I_will_never_take_Scotland_for_granted.aspx

The Myth 4

Mussolini said: “Fascism (and communism) is the state collaborating with large corporations to defraud the people.”

The Truth 4

I have been unable to find an original source for this quote. The places you find this quote mentioned are on Far Right websites like Centurean (one of the sources of the Jack Straw quote), David Icke’s website and a load of anti-EU websites. It is always written in exactly the same way as above, “Mussolini said:…“, suggesting that it has been copied from a common source. The reason why the above quote is highly unlikely to have been said by Mussolini is for the following three reasons.

1. Why would a fascist declare that fascism defrauds the people? Mussolini stayed in power for over 20 years, so he presumably wouldn’t have been such an idiot to have uttered such a thing.

2. Communism would by its very nature never collaborate with capitalism (large corporations), as its main purpose is to overthrow it. Again, Mussolini was no fool so he’d have known not to say such a ridiculous thing.

3. Mussolini really said: “Fascism is the complete opposite of Marxian Socialism“. So why would he also say that fascism and communism were the same?

If like the supposed Churchill quote this was one of these sayings that was never written down, how come it’s only popped up many decades after the man who said it died? Has some elderly fascist been going around with this in their head for over 60 years and decided to make it known only on Far Right, anti-EU and conspiracy theorist websites? Odd how it seems to have originally appeared a few months before the European Elections!
The earliest date I have discovered for it is 24th January 2009. It can be found here: http://centurean2.wordpress.com/2009/01/24/fabian-infiltration-of-all-the-older-british-partiesit-had-crossed-my-mind/
Lots of nationalist bollocks on there. The usual EU = German Empire/Nazis, “Frankfurt School subversion” and “Fabian Infiltration of ALL The Older British Parties” rubbish.

“The EU dictatorship cannot be built while there is a strong and freedom loving Britain on its doorstep. (We stopped them in 1914, 1939, and they don’t remind you that the Nazis launched the EU as the EEC in 1940.)”

No, the Nazis conquered Europe by military force in 1940. They made the conquered countries totally subservient to the Third Reich. That’s not the same as an erstwhile trading partnership that keeps tightening its rules and regulations, and keeps striving for closer unity between members. I do have plenty of reservations about the EU, but you’d have to be a moron to make that comparison.
The paragraph in which the Mussolini quote is contained reads.

“Mussolini said: “Fascism (and communism) is the state collaborating with large corporations to defraud the people.” That is exactly what we have seen while we’ve been in the EU. And in 2008, the government agreed to give the banks two thirds of our taxes (£450 billion) to bail them out from their greed and incompetence.”

Most of that webpage has been copied here, http://www.eutruth.org.uk/, with some extra stuff about Common Purpose and the Queen being a traitor for signing the six EU treaties thrown in. The website is copyrighted to David Noakes 1997-2009.

The EU Truth webpage has in turn been copied and pasted here on the David Icke forum, http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57861, which dates from 17th March 2009. So a copy of a copy.

On this German website the Centurean webpage is partially quoted again, http://diepresse.com/home/politik/eu/50 … =25&page=2, on 14th September 2009. The part up till, “while we’ve been in the EU” is repeated.

The Centurean webpage is copied and pasted in a post here, http://www.disclose.tv/forum/democracy-dies-in-the-uk-t11248.html, as well and the post dates from the 5th November 2005.

Another source for just the quote itself is here, http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/site/comments/why-global-warming-is-not-science/, which as well as being anti-global warming, also has a counter for counting down the days until Obama leaves office. The quote is in the same “Mussolini said:…” format as shown above beneath The Myth 4 heading. The date is the 26th November and considering the shortage of subsequent posts we can assume it was posted on 26th November 2009.

So no sources of this supposed quote by Mussolini appear to be any older than the 24th January 2009, the one on the Centurean website, and all of them use the same “Mussolini said:…” format as on the Centurean website or are obviously copied directly from it. Makes you wonder who originally said it. None of those websites could realistically be considered a reliable source of evidence.

Also interesting is that a quote saying, “Mussolini said: ‘Fascism (and communism) is the state collaborating with large corporations to defraud the people’“, first appears on a website where the site’s owner also called someone a “Communist Fascist Fabian“. Therefore on the same website we have a quote saying fascism and communism have the same relationship with capitalism, as well as the website’s owner accusing someone of being a ‘fascist communist‘. Anybody who knows anything about politics will know that a ‘fascist communist‘ is an oxymoron, like a ‘Catholic atheist‘. Presumably the website’s owner does not know this and they also quote Mussolini as having made a similar error, something that Mussolini as an opponent of communism wouldn’t have made.
Remember that according to Mussolini, “Fascism the complete opposite of Marxian Socialism“, i.e. communism, so he would never have made the claim that fascism and communism were basically the same thing. I think we can all judge for ourselves the origins of this quote by ‘Mussolini’.

So we have one made-up quote by Churchill accusing anti-fascists of being fascists, and another made-up quote by Mussolini saying that the EU is akin to fascism and communism. How strange that the BNP is the implacable enemy of both anti-fascists and the EU! Even more amusingly the BNP’s proposed relations with large corporations are identical to that of fascism!

See if you can find an earlier origin to this claim.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%E2%80%9CFascism+(and+communism)+is+the+state+collaborating+with+large+corporations+to+defraud+the+people.%E2%80%9D&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUK346&filter=0

The Myth 5

Lord Ahmed threatened bring a force of 10,000 Muslims to lay siege to the Lords if the campaigning anti-Islamist Dutch MP Geert Wilders was allowed to speak.

The Truth 5

The earliest reference to this oft-quoted remark is the Spectator blog of Melanie Phillips, a Right Wing columnist with little love for Britain’s Muslims it seems. Lord Ahmed strenuously denied saying such a thing and has threatened to take legal action over it.
This is the blog in full.

Melanie Phillips’s Spectator blog, 3rd February 2009

I have been travelling during the past few days and so have built up a bit of a backlog of events upon which I have not yet commented. One of these is the apparently gross abuse of Parliament by Lord Ahmed of Rotherham, which remarkably has not been covered at all in the mainstream British media. Another member of the House of Lords invited the Dutch politician Geert Wilders, who is currently facing prosecution in the Netherlands for his outspoken analysis of the Islamist war on civilisation, to screen his controversial film ‘Fitna’ in the Lords on January 29 and discuss his views.

But various representatives of the British Muslim community protested; and Lord Ahmed issued a threat that he would personally mobilise 10,000 Muslims to prevent Wilders from entering the Upper House and would take the peer organising the event to court. In the face of such threats, the meeting was cancelled. Lord Ahmed then boasted of his victory in the Pakistani media. The Associated Press of Pakistan reported him exulting in ‘a victory for the Muslim community’.

It was of course a major defeat for Parliament’s sovereign right and duty to protect free speech, the right to issue an invitation to a democratically elected member of a European parliament, and the right of British citizens to live without intimidation. It was an appalling development.

Now, however, it is fighting back. Wilders has been re-invited to speak and screen his film in the Lords later this month. Parliament now has a second chance to show that jihadi thuggery will not be allowed to prevail within the cradle of democracy. But if it is really to demonstrate this, it should also surely take action against Lord Ahmed, who abused his position as a peer of the realm to threaten mass intimidation of the House in which he sits. If it fails to do so, it will be another notch on the ratchet of Britain’s slide into submission.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/3317931/the-intimidation-of-the-house-of-lords.thtml

This is the article from the Associated Press of Pakistan mentioning Lord Ahmed’s objects to Fitna being shown.

British Parliament calls off screening of controversial film
LONDON, Jan 23 (APP)‑The British Parliament has cancelled the showing of a controversial film “Fitna” by the right‑win Dutch MP Geert Wilders following vociferous protest by the Muslim community.

The screening was to take place on January 29 at the House of Lords.

The decision to cancel the showing was taken on Friday when Lord Nazir Ahmed had a meeting with the Government Chief Whip of the House of Lords and Leader of the House of Lords, together with representatives from the Muslim Council of Britain, British Muslim Forum and other representatives from the British Muslim community.

The film has created huge controversy around the world, especially in Europe. The decision by the Amsterdam Appeals Court, the second‑highest legal authority in the country, overturns an earlier ruling by the Dutch Prosecution Service, which last June dismissed hundreds of complaints against Wilders on the grounds that his utterances had been made “in the context of public debate”, a position that was endorsed by the Dutch Prime Minister, Jan Peter Balkenende, a Christian Democrat.

But on Thursday, the appeals court argued that the criminal prosecution did not conflict with Wilders’ right to freedom of expression and said it based its decision on the standards set by the European Court of Human Rights.

The Far‑right Dutch politician will now be put on trial for his public statements against Islam. As a result of the meeting at the House of Lords not going ahead, all protests and demonstrations have now been cancelled Lord Ahmed termed the decision as “a victory for the Muslim community.”

http://www.app.com.pk/en_/index.php?opt … 2&Itemid=2

No mention of ‘10,000 Muslims’ or taking peers to court, just a discussion with the Government Chief Whip of the House of Lords and Leader of the House of Lords, the Muslim Council of Britain, the British Muslim Forum and other Muslim representatives.

Further examples of Phillips’ thinking regarding Muslims can be see when she stated, “We are entitled to ask precisely when he stopped being a Muslim, and why. Did Obama embrace Christianity as a tactical manoeuvre to get himself elected?”. Mr. Obama has never actually been a Muslim however, so Phillips is repeating another popular Right Wing myth. In her column she goes further, accusing Obama of installing a fifth columnist supportive of Iran in the US administration.

“Obama has now appointed to the senior Iran desk at the State Department a man who is in hock to the Iranian regime.” - 10th November 2009

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/5526371/a-fifth-columnist-by-presidential-appointment.thtml

“Obama assumes that Islamic terrorism is driven by despair, poverty, inflammatory US policy and the American presence on Muslim soil in the Persian Gulf. Thus he adopts the agenda of the Islamists themselves. This is not surprising since many of his connections suggest that that the man who may be elected President of a country upon which the Islamists have declared war is himself firmly in the Islamists’ camp.” - 24th October 2008

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/2545716/is-america-really-going-to-do-this.thtml

She even accuses Obama of being a ‘revolutionary Marxist’ for his work as a community organiser!

“…in the world of Barack Obama, community organisers are a key strategy in a different game altogether; and the name of that game is revolutionary Marxism.” - 9th September 2008

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/2073071/revolution-you-can-believe-in.thtml

In her Daily Mail column entitled “How Britain, the cradle of liberty, is sleepwalking towards cultural suicide”, she says Britain has capitulated to Islamic terror and repeats the ‘10,000 Muslims‘ claim.

“If anyone had doubted the extent to which Britain has capitulated to Islamic terror, the banning of Geert Wilders should surely open their eyes. Wilders, the Dutch member of parliament who had made an uncompromising stand against the Koranic sources of Islamist extremism and violence, was due to give a screening of Fitna, his film on this subject, at the House of Lords on Thursday.
This meeting had been postponed amid claims that Lord Ahmed had previously threatened the House of Lords authorities that he would bring a force of 10,000 Muslims to lay siege to the Lords if Wilders was allowed to speak.
Lord Ahmed denies this report and said his lawyers are investigating those he blames for spreading it.” - 12th February 2009

She says the invasion of Iraq in 2003 was justified as there were Weapons of Mass Destruction that were, according to Dave Gaubatz:

“…buried in the four sites were excavated by Iraqis and Syrians, with help from the Russians, and moved to Syria. The location in Syria of this material, he says, is also known to these intelligence agencies. The worst-case scenario has now come about. Saddam’s nuclear, biological and chemical material is in the hands of a rogue terrorist state — and one with close links to Iran.”

Elsewhere she says the traditional family has been attacked by “cultural Marxism” and Palestinians are a “a terrorist population” and that what is now Israel was never a Palestinian homeland as the Palestinians never had one. Her extremely critical view of Islam, which is seems surprisingly close to that of the likes of the BNP and EDL, appears to come from her overly-defensive views regarding Judaism and Israel (she is very Jewish). Her criticism of Islam and Muslims (which is very frequent) she defends by making out she is fighting against anti-Semitism. In fact she goes so far as to say critics of Israel are anti-Semites, as were the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches in Britain when polls said 80% of their members did not believe Israel was fighting for survival and had a right to root out its enemies (which to most people conjures up air strikes and lots of dead Palestinians).

She even calls the UN is the “Club of Terror”, the MMR vaccine is dangerous despite expert opinion, global warming is, “one of the greatest scientific scams of the modern age” and environmentalists are fascists because, “It was no accident that Hitler was a green”. She even says evolution is “merely a theory” and lacking in evidence.

“For many, the claim that evolution enabled life to cross the species barrier so that humans are merely the last link in the evolutionary chain remains a step too far — not least because, by the standards science itself sets, it fails the test of evidence. It is merely a theory.” – 10th April, 2006

http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=408

It’s hard to take Phillips’ comments about Lord Ahmed seriously when she makes comments like the above ones. She in effect supports every Right Wing tabloid loony conspiracy and presumably only her being Jewish makes her an opponent of the standard Jews/’global Zionism’ conspiracy theories, rather than endorsing them as well.
It is no surprise therefore that what she said about Lord Ahmed and his army of 10,000 Muslims, of which there appear to be no other sources, is readily taken up by the BNP and EDL. The phrases, words and general opinions would almost make one believe they were lifted from the BNP or EDL websites. It makes you wonder who is influencing who here?

© One Million United 2009/2010